100# patio size build, need guidance

[Smokydokey]

Howdy Boy's, I have 2 of these tanks (from the dump) and would like to get your input. It's only me & Mrs smokydokey and this should be a handy size just for 2 and a nice starter smoker for me. The design is not quite "conventional" and so far I only have 1 of the tanks butchered up If you end up telling me that I'm nuts and it won't work
Rather than writing 15 paragraphs of dribble, I'd like to show you drawings of 3 different designs. (no drwg of center FB)
They are; FB under & to the side with a connector "throat" between the 2.
FB under & to the side with a complete cut out of the connecting area with a giant "damper" inside.
FB under & in the middle with smoke diverters spliting/sending the smoke to both ends with a center chimney.

I know that there are a ton of other considerations for later, sizing calc's and details. But my immediate question, is this feasable or do I need to order up a sheet of .25 and head to the guy with the shear & brake? Thanks a bunch.

[Smokydokey]

This is where I'm at right now. I'm just not sure how to procede or just ch!tcan that FB and do a more "normal" FB.
I also have concerns about the thickness (or lack thereof) of the tank material, esp for the FB. fire brick?

[Smokydokey]

Here's the center FB design. It makes sence to me but I don't know Jack …. and have never built one. It would seem to have a good bit less "friction" as I've read that can give you troubles. Wtih a short "smoke path" and each side doing almost exactly what the other side is doing, it would seem to help eliminate hot spots except maybe in the middle oer the FB, but that might be helped with some sort of a heat shield. I like this idea & look and it just seems like it's a smart way to go, but I've never even put a match to a smoker and I need your experence and guidance on this project. That means your opinion's (bad or good) and input, and to let me know if I'm just not thinking right. If I need to build a "conventional" FB so be it!!
I'm a firm believer that you can read & TRY to learn as much as you can, but doing is the best teacher there is.

That's a baffle in the middle, (hopefully splitting and directing the smoke path toward's the ends.)

[Rodcrafter]

I don't see any problems so far with the general design. Fishless Mickey makes a lot of this sorta cooker. The main thing on these is the FB has to be sealed up nice so you can control intake air because it will work just like a UDS. I've seen others used the directional plate like you have, I think an shadow plate then an Baffle Plate works even better. Keep up the good work. You must know you will be burning charcoal with wood chunks for smoke. That is the only way you can run 225 with this style cooker. If you try to run it like a stick burner it will run way too hot.

[Rev.Mike]

[Smokydokey]

I don't see any problems so far with the general design. Fishless Mickey makes a lot of this sorta cooker. The main thing on these is the FB has to be sealed up nice so you can control intake air because it will work just like a UDS. I've seen others used the directional plate like you have, I think an shadow plate then an Baffle Plate works even better. Keep up the good work. You must know you will be burning charcoal with wood chunks for smoke. That is the only way you can run 225 with this style cooker. If you try to run it like a stick burner it will run way too hot.

Thanks Rodcrafter, would explain shadow & baffle plate for me? I did not know that I ned to burn charcoal, is it because the FB us directly under the CC?

[Smokydokey]

Well today I just "went for it" that is I used the center design. I was on "some other" forum asking for help and I think that I was scolded (in a nice way) about my non traditional design after 2 responces….cricket's. It seems that there are several "calculators" out ther for sizing things. Feldons, and SMF. The results were very close. Do you guy's have one here or have a preference?

[Rodcrafter]

We do have a calc, but they aren't for vertical smokers. As for the "shadow plate" it is an plate placed half the distance between your FB opening and your Baffle plate. The SP would be centered over the opening and about twice the size of the opening. This would take the brunt of the heat rising from your FB then the BP goes an equal amount up from the SP as it was from the opening. As you stated allow the BP to seal all the way front to back then leave a gap on each end half the size of the opening.

Jm2cw

[Smokydokey]

How should I size these plates RC? The inside dim. is 14.5", I was thinking of a way to make an adjustable flow device thingamajig. (because I don't know what the ell I'm doin). If you'll put up with some more pics, I'll take some tommorow for further "guidance" Thanks RodCrafter!

[Rodcrafter]

We all like pics

[Big T]

[Smokydokey]

[/attachment]Talk about head scratchin', figuring "round" for cutting & fitting, phew! This is where I'm at this AM.[attachment=0]DSCN5997.JPG
Here's the diverters, RF plate.

[Smokydokey]

OK, now I'm getting confused, as if I weren't already,lol.
I thought that I read that small cookers were often "cold" and RodCrafter say's this is a variation of a UDS and will be hot. I really want to cook with wood. How (at this stage) could I slow this thing down for wood cooking? What I'm thinking of is;

1 Put in that dome above the FB with a hole in it based on a sq./in. number from the calculator.
2 Put in 2 "dampers" like on this drawing, to each side of the diverters, to choke off the flow.
3 all of the above.

RC mentioned that the FB door should be "tight" and this should not be a problem. I going to play with finishing the door today as I hopefully get some suggestions/solutions here today. That is if you guy's aren't out all day smokin'

[Rodcrafter]

Good pics, you did a better job on the primary deflectors than I had imagined. Good work! I would say that you wouldn't need a shadow plate considering that. As for making this cooker burn wood only? I have to say enjoy charcoal and wood chunks. The plate you considered putting above the fire with a hole cut out as you mentioned may work but it will restrict the flow so much the FB will distort like crazy because of holding so much heat. I don't want to be negative so I would say, finish it and prove it works great. Then either build a stick burner and sell this one as an vertical or have 2. But to try to force a vertical to act like an offset would require some much heavier material. In my opinion.
Vertical smokers work great, they are more efficient and burn unattended longer than stick burners do.

[Smokydokey]

Thanks for all your help RC! Hey, don't worry about my thinking any advice is negative. At my first grade, make that kidergarten level, I take it as advice.
I take much comfort in your last coment, that sounds good to me.
I have a question that has a lot to do with some of my build ideas that turned out to be wrong. I'm a pretty simple guy with simple thinking and thought that I could just build a small fire for less heat and a big one for alot of heat. What part of this am I not understanding? Is it because the FB is so close being directly under the CC? There are many basic cooker principal's I need to learn.

[Fishless Mickey]

If you had a large cook chamber volume above the center column, you could light a small fire and possibly not get excessively hot. These kind of cookers are very efficient at transferring almost all the heat produced into the chamber above. You might possibly be able to maintain a tiny fire and not get too hot. I have made these to operate like UDS smokers and they work great.

[Smokydokey]

Hey Mickey, glad you got in here as your name was mentioned. Got any builds on here you could link me to?

[Rodcrafter]

SD

Here you go.

http://www.smokerbuilder.com/forums/vie ... =17&t=3836

[Fishless Mickey]

for the link thank you RC. If you check out the pit calculator here on this site, you'll see that the throat opening is generally much larger than the exit stack or the air intake. That calculator doesn't really apply here just pointing out that a restriction in the air flow just after the fire would likely put the fire out. You have a really neat design there for diverters. I wouldn't use dampers (restrict flow) there either. When vertical cooking in a UDS cooker, even putting too much meat on a rack can stifle air flow and stop a cook from being successful (made that mistake with almost 150pounds of meat on while everyone kept walking by yelling "is it ready yet?!"). If you decide to go with charcoal and wood chunks, the air inlet(s) should be as low on the fire-tank as possible to let the oxygen get to the whole pile of charcoal (but not arranged so that the ash will clog the inlet as it burns). Also, the cook chamber door will need to be pretty air tight (gasket even better). Otherwise the heat in the roof if the chamber will draw air in from the CC door and not in from the fire air intake(s). My two cents learned from trial and errors. I've never tried what you are proposing. Maybe it will work and we can learn something new.

[Smokydokey]

I was going to put 2-4" air inlets into the FB. One in the door (did that one today) and the other one on the opposite side of the FB (180*apart) they are both going to be as low as possible.
What do you fellers think the size shoud be for the exhaust stack?
Things are tight in that small tank, what is the ideal pposition for the cooking surface/rack? Do I want to stay in the middle of the smoke (half between the plate & the top) or do I want to "hug" the plate for heat?

[Rodcrafter]

Most of us try to get a few inches from the BP. But I hope those air intakes will be very tight fitting. Many people use ball valves so they can shut them down if needed. If the heat begins to run away which it can in these you need to be able to shut her down.
Jm2cw

[Smokydokey]

RC, I thought that might be the case, they're 4" pipe with a .25 plate on a 5/8 bolt that's not real creative or purty but it seals up tight. I only have the 1 done on the door so far. The door should be really tight also, built kinda like a wood stove door with a channel that takes a regular 1/2" wood stove rope gasket. Should I have 2 of these 4" (inside) oposing vents?

[Rodcrafter]

I like having vents on at least 2 sides so if the wind is contrary to your smoker. But they need to be tight.

[Smokydokey]

10-4 RC Do you see any issues with the door, other than it's real heavy!

[Rodcrafter]

You will notice over time I like things heavy, so that would be a plus in my book.