Another Newbie

[PVF&F]

Hello all! I too have been “lurking” as one member put it. I have some general questions. I currently have 20” casing that I will use for bothe CC and FB construction. I intend on cutting it open to relax the metal and fill the gap with whatever material size it opens up to. I saw this method on YouTube.
One question I have is do you guys think this is a good method?

Next thing I wanna pick your brains about is deflector plate and baffle. This kinda confuses me because some smokers have just a deflector plate by itself and to me this just disperses head more evenly to prevent a hotspot coming out of the throat. Other guys say you want to immediately force that heat straight up with a baffle. I may just be confusing myself but I was hoping maybe someone could tell me if a deflector plate by itself is adequate.

I suppose I will get asked so here is what I think my dimensions will be.
CC: 20” x 59”
FB: 20” x 24” ; 122%

The reason I say what I think the dimensions will be is because when I cut that casing I expect it to open up probably at least 2” so I will have to redo my calculations. I hope all this makes sense. I’m looking forward to what you guys have to say.
I wanted to share real quick I haven’t ever really done any smoking but I saw a customers offset and checked it out then became consumed by this forum and YouTube. Looks like I’m hooked. That being said I want to come up with solid plans to have a highly functional offset. Anyhow guys, let me know what your thoughts are.

[SheffSmoker]

Hello and welcome!

There is no right and wrong answer regarding deflector plates and baffles. Every pit is different, some like the hot spot near the FB for cooking hotter and faster. Of the 2 I've built one has no baffle or deflector and one has a small deflector after some experimentation. 3rd one I'm building is a reverse flow as I'm keen to try all avenues.

Regarding the opening of the pipe - good idea I'm also sold on now, but again every pipe is different - some have opened up, one of mine actually snapped shut 3"!

[ThinBlue]

Welcome aboard man! I know the feeling. I was in your shoes not too long ago and I'm hooked now as well.

Sheff I'm glad you said that about the pipe shrinking in diameter rather than enlarging. I think there are a few examples, between here and YouTube (lots of inspiration to be found there). Depending on if the pipe was over or under rolled you will get a different result. The main reason for doing this is to eliminate any spring in the door when that is cut out. I forgot who it was but I seem to recall reading that one of the members here split their pipe, welded in a filler piece and the door still sprung a little bit when it was cut out. So, there are no guarantees when it comes to metal.

Your dimensions look pretty solid to me. Don't get too hung up on the calculator if you are planning on doing a standard offset; there's some wiggle room there. It's a good rule of thumb though and should be utilized for setting your minimums for FB, smoke stack and throat opening.

I have the same question about the deflector plate and I don't have an answer for you but I'll share with you what I am planning on doing. I'm going to build without the deflector and see how it performs. If I don't get my desired result I will try a downward baffle and if that doesn't tickle my fancy I will make an upward baffle. It's not a hard piece to add after everything else is completed so don't feel like you need to commit to it now. That's my .02 anyways.

[PVF&F]

Hello and welcome!

There is no right and wrong answer regarding deflector plates and baffles. Every pit is different, some like the hot spot near the FB for cooking hotter and faster. Of the 2 I've built one has no baffle or deflector and one has a small deflector after some experimentation. 3rd one I'm building is a reverse flow as I'm keen to try all avenues.

Regarding the opening of the pipe - good idea I'm also sold on now, but again every pipe is different - some have opened up, one of mine actually snapped shut 3"!

Heck I hope I am replying correctly, never been part of any forum… So what is your take on the no deflector vs. the deflector since you have made both? And I squared up the ends of that casing this morning before work and in doing so, the small piece I cut off opened up about two inches. So, I’m hoping (fingers crossed) that the rest will follow suit.

[PVF&F]

Welcome aboard man! I know the feeling. I was in your shoes not too long ago and I'm hooked now as well.

Sheff I'm glad you said that about the pipe shrinking in diameter rather than enlarging. I think there are a few examples, between here and YouTube (lots of inspiration to be found there). Depending on if the pipe was over or under rolled you will get a different result. The main reason for doing this is to eliminate any spring in the door when that is cut out. I forgot who it was but I seem to recall reading that one of the members here split their pipe, welded in a filler piece and the door still sprung a little bit when it was cut out. So, there are no guarantees when it comes to metal.

Your dimensions look pretty solid to me. Don't get too hung up on the calculator if you are planning on doing a standard offset; there's some wiggle room there. It's a good rule of thumb though and should be utilized for setting your minimums for FB, smoke stack and throat opening.

I have the same question about the deflector plate and I don't have an answer for you but I'll share with you what I am planning on doing. I'm going to build without the deflector and see how it performs. If I don't get my desired result I will try a downward baffle and if that doesn't tickle my fancy I will make an upward baffle. It's not a hard piece to add after everything else is completed so don't feel like you need to commit to it now. That's my .02 anyways.

I appreciate the response. I sure hope, based on the YouTube video, that I have similar results as that guy. I know there is a lot of opposition to welding on the hinges prior to fully cutting out the door but it worked pretty slick for that guy. But…. I’m usually a victim of Murphy’s law and something will go wrong but the idea seems sound. I suppose it’s worth mentioning to those that are tuning in that the WH 1975 is kinda the route I’m taking with some slight deviations. The casing that I have for the FB is kind of a Frankenstein. Someone welded like 5 or 6 small pieces together giving me 28” in length. I expect due to the different pieces being welded together that it will do some funky stuff when I rip that one. Anyway, since it’s all stitched up my idea to try and hide the cosmetic imperfections, was to kind of do a tombstone semi insulated bottom and somewhat cover the top of the cowboy grill with a griddle on top. This things probably going to be a disaster but it was all free so might as well. Thoughts?? And sorry for the lengthy post to your reply. Not good at this forum stuff.

[ThinBlue]

Awesome. The WH 1975 has become a big influence on my build as well. I'm going to end up taking a little from WH, Fatstack, and Mill Scale. It's going to be a Fat Mill Horse.

No worries on the long posts. We're all here for discussion. Whether it be short or long. If not we'd just stick to the FB group where people more or less post pictures of there build and that's it.

I think I'm picking up what you're putting down on the firebox. I think that's a good way of disguising what you don't like about it and making it more useful. In the end all that matters is that it works for you.

Since you are planning to use the WH 1975 as your inspiration here are a few pictures I grabbed from elsewhere that someone had posted with some measurements for you to reference and adapt to your build, if you so choose.

[PVF&F]

Heck yeah thanks Blue. I had not seen those pics before. I had seen a larger deflector before that’s a little guy. Seems a little will go a long way.

[sandro]

Note there are two gaps on the downward lip, most people miss those; the lip is welded in three points only. I believe there's a 1/4" gap between the plate and the lip where smoke and heat can rise in tiny amounts. When I fabricated the same out of a cookie sheet I ground the slits down with a file. To this day I can't tell if it's 30 degrees or 45, by the way

[PVF&F]

Note there are two gaps on the downward lip, most people miss those; the lip is welded in three points only. I believe there's a 1/4" gap between the plate and the lip where smoke and heat can rise in tiny amounts. When I fabricated the same out of a cookie sheet I ground the slits down with a file. To this day I can't tell if it's 30 degrees or 45, by the way

Ok you are right. I didn’t notice them. Thanks for pointing that out.

[SheffSmoker]

Hello and welcome!

There is no right and wrong answer regarding deflector plates and baffles. Every pit is different, some like the hot spot near the FB for cooking hotter and faster. Of the 2 I've built one has no baffle or deflector and one has a small deflector after some experimentation. 3rd one I'm building is a reverse flow as I'm keen to try all avenues.

Regarding the opening of the pipe - good idea I'm also sold on now, but again every pipe is different - some have opened up, one of mine actually snapped shut 3"!

Heck I hope I am replying correctly, never been part of any forum… So what is your take on the no deflector vs. the deflector since you have made both? And I squared up the ends of that casing this morning before work and in doing so, the small piece I cut off opened up about two inches. So, I’m hoping (fingers crossed) that the rest will follow suit.

You've got it regarding replying, don't worry.

The one without a deflector was a tiny smoker I made during lockdown to try proof of concept. The FB is a vertical small propane tank so has a lot of headroom above the fire, and doesn't seem to suffer a hotspot.

The second was much larger and conventional in shape. Quckly found after a few cooks it had a big hotspot near the throat as would be expected. Made a quick and dirty deflector using an offcut and tried angling it downwards first. This made it even worse! Cut it off and flipped it vertical at about a 20 degree angle off vertical and it's much better. Still has an inch or two hotspot on the grate nearest FB but I can live with that. I find it useful for crisping up chicken near the end.

Many others in a traditional offset have used tuning plates with great success.

To summarise - this is why I said no two pits run the same, so don't be swayed one way or another from what others have done. If you build it and can get back in to make adjustments then that's what I'd do, find out how yours runs first before adding things that may be unneccesary or plain don't work correctly.

[PVF&F]

Thanks Sheff. Message received. So the upward angle is what worked best for you. Noted.

[Brewmaster]

Note there are two gaps on the downward lip, most people miss those; the lip is welded in three points only. I believe there's a 1/4" gap between the plate and the lip where smoke and heat can rise in tiny amounts. When I fabricated the same out of a cookie sheet I ground the slits down with a file. To this day I can't tell if it's 30 degrees or 45, by the way

These slots of which you speak are non-existent! Now, I'm only about 99.9% sure so take that with a grain of salt, haha! It only appears as if there's a gap there because it's a piece of 3/8" thick metal that's cut-off on a 90, then angled downward a good bit, making it appear as if there could be gaps between the welded sections, it's a mirage, I'm betting beer on it. Also, I'm not certain of the downward baffle angle either, but it's definitely not as far as 45 degrees. I guessed around 25 or 30 degrees by looking at @gtsum' pics there, but I've compiled other photos as well and while none are defining, you can see it's not angled down to the 45 degree extent.

[ThinBlue]

To my eye it looks like that baffle is 3 1/2" in length. The top of the throat is going to be somewhere around 5 3/4-6" (notice the measurement is not taken from dead center). In one photo it looks like that baffle overlaps the throat opening by about 1/2-1". The top of the baffle, to me, looks to be hitting around 6 1/4- 6-1/2". Not sure what the equivalent angle is but there you go.

[sandro]

These slots of which you speak are non-existent!

Your explanation makes sense—would love to hear from an owner. 20 degrees looks about right, definitely not 45

edit: there seems to be a gap! But it might as well be as you say, it would make sense

To my eye it looks like that baffle is 3 1/2" in length. The top of the throat is going to be somewhere around 5 3/4-6" (notice the measurement is not taken from dead center). In one photo it looks like that baffle overlaps the throat opening by about 1/2-1". The top of the baffle, to me, looks to be hitting around 6 1/4- 6-1/2". Not sure what the equivalent angle is but there you go.

The throat is simply cut in half, the two pipes overlap perfectly at their centers and the top half of the throat is covered. What's really interesting is what you're pointing out about the baffle being welded further up the throat opening... I have to check a few pictures, I never noticed that

edit: Hm no it looks like it's attached at the end of it

edit 2: Actually, I think you're right:

[PVF&F]

So do you guys think that this was an intentional design feature or perhaps the guy was just using what he had and didn’t see the need to weld the whole thing?

[Brewmaster]

So do you guys think that this was an intentional design feature or perhaps the guy was just using what he had and didn’t see the need to weld the whole thing?

It's just something to redirect the airflow so it just needs to be tacked on, no need to spend the resources on welding the flap solid. You can see in a couple of the images here where it looks like some heat/smoke is escaping up through the crack on one side only, (small area of seasoning burnt off) these are used pits so you'd see where the heat and smoke goes. The baffle doesn't partially block the throat, it is placed just atop of the throat opening.

[sandro]

The next logical question now is: does this design only work on extra-long fireboxes like the 57, 69 and 75? Always going by logic, that design seems to block the line of sight between the fire and the meat to avoid direct radiant heat, as well as move the hot spot just a few inches to the left. In fact, Workhorse Pits have thermometers at the far left and the far right of the chamber, and they read within 5 degrees across—that's because the one on the right is out of the hot spot which sits at 7/8 of the grate. Decisions decisions.

Personally I'm using a Franklin/Mill Scale style baffle because I find it works well for my needs, however I do lose 7" of cooking space

[ThinBlue]

Brewmaster this is why I thought the baffle overlaps the throat opening. I could be wrong and it could just be the angle of the photo though. It can't be all things though... Tacked at the top of the throat, angled downward and not overlap the throat opening. One of those things has to give.

[ThinBlue]

Also, I'd like to just say I truly appreciate what's going on right now and all of us nerding out over some photos of a pit and trying to figure out the method and madness. That's why I came here.

[Brewmaster]

Brewmaster this is why I thought the baffle overlaps the throat opening. I could be wrong and it could just be the angle of the photo though. It can't be all things though... Tacked at the top of the throat, angled downward and not overlap the throat opening. One of those things has to give.
ceff2ad08a39326a0a9f02c80a2d59cf.jpg

Speaking to the placement of where the baffle is attached, it's welded on directly above, flush even, with the top of throat opening, then angled downward, as seen in your photo it is all these things at once. It's not overlapping the throat opening itself. Once you enter the chamber beyond the actual baffle attachment proper, a directional flap doesn't affect the actual throat-opening size or geometry, which is what I'm trying to point out. Regardless of these minute details, build yours as you wish and have fun, that's what I did!

[PVF&F]

Understood. I feel like with my intent on cooking occasionally for family and friends I think that it’s not going to be a huge deal to lose a few inches of cooking space as I will likely not have the CC maxed out. I just like hearing the ideas and theories. Like Thin Blue said, it’s pretty neat the amount of discussion that gets generated on specific topics. Speaking of which…. I am thinking of ordering a few thermometers. Seems like everyone likes the Tel Tru brand. Is there any major issues in selecting the length of probe? Also, I was planning on mounting mine next to the CC door and not on it. Thoughts??

[Brewmaster]

The next logical question now is: does this design only work on extra-long fireboxes like the 57, 69 and 75? Always going by logic, that design seems to block the line of sight between the fire and the meat to avoid direct radiant heat, as well as move the hot spot just a few inches to the left. In fact, Workhorse Pits have thermometers at the far left and the far right of the chamber, and they read within 5 degrees across—that's because the one on the right is out of the hot spot which sits at 7/8 of the grate. Decisions decisions.

Personally, I'm using a Franklin/Mill Scale style baffle because I find it works well for my needs, however I do lose 7" of cooking space

I think there are always going to be compromises no matter which baffle design we choose. I think after trying a bunch of different baffles on my smaller pit that the Franklin-style also works best, or I just like that best, it definitely increases throughput air velocity. I'm tempted to try it on the 24x48 but man it's a lot of work to fix something that really isn't broke. That said, there's only one real way to know!

[Brewmaster]

Understood. I feel like with my intent on cooking occasionally for family and friends I think that it’s not going to be a huge deal to lose a few inches of cooking space as I will likely not have the CC maxed out. I just like hearing the ideas and theories. Like Thin Blue said, it’s pretty neat the amount of discussion that gets generated on specific topics. Speaking of which…. I am thinking of ordering a few thermometers. Seems like everyone likes the Tel Tru brand. Is there any major issues in selecting the length of probe? Also, I was planning on mounting mine next to the CC door and not on it. Thoughts??

Agreed! We can all learn through discussion and sharing of information and ideas.

Sounds like you're on the right track re thermometer, most use the standard 3" dial and 4" probe, I think. I'm a fan of the single thermometer and placement ala Franklin. Cheers

[sandro]

Brewmaster this is why I thought the baffle overlaps the throat opening.

I think the baffle is welded at the right height and angle to be in line with the opening without eating into it; if you look at my last picture you'll see it's indeed welded half an inch from the opening and angled downwards; and if you look at pictures of the firebox looking into the cooking chamber you'll notice the baffle almost looks parallel to the CC, which we know it's not the case

Understood. I feel like with my intent on cooking occasionally for family and friends I think that it’s not going to be a huge deal to lose a few inches of cooking space as I will likely not have the CC maxed out.

Yeah no matter the design, some space is gonna be lost or some hot spots have to be dealt with. JD makes it a huge selling point that you can use the whole grate with their design and I believe it's true; while a hot spot has to undoubtedly exist a few inches to the left of the baffle, given enough turbulence the temperature delta shouldn't be unmanageable—as long as you're not running a fast fire

Seems like everyone likes the Tel Tru brand. Is there any major issues in selecting the length of probe? Also, I was planning on mounting mine next to the CC door and not on it. Thoughts??

3" dial and 4" stem for backyard models is the way to go in my opinion; the 6" stem is way too much on a 20 or 24" pipe

I think after trying a bunch of different baffles on my smaller pit that the Franklin-style also works best, or I just like that best, it definitely increases throughput air velocity. I'm tempted to try it on the 24x48 but man it's a lot of work to fix something that really isn't broke. That said, there's only one real way to know!

Oh yeah, convection is definitely higher. However I would like to tinker with the throat opening itself now—I know both the Franklin and the Mill Scale do not have a completely open throat. The franklin has a 2" dam on the bottom and a 1" border around the lower half:

Whereas the Mill Scale 94 has a 2" border all around:

I've been testing something myself lately, and I've covered the bottom half of the throat, effectively halving it, to somewhat break the line of sight between the fire and the meat. It still draws very well, as I only need 34in² of exchange and the two overlapping 16" pipes give me 74in² to play with. Have you tinkered with the throat opening?

[Brewmaster]

Photos?!

I haven't really played with throat openings much. I have been mostly left messing with baffles on offsets that had already been built by someone else. That said, on my 20x36 I had to remove the 2" grease dam because it was choking it back. I checked the sq in the calculator and it turned out to be about 90% of recommended, and it seemed finicky to maintain, so I cut the dam out and actually moved it into the chamber about 4" toward the stack and welded it back in, that little mod actually made a solid difference and it runs better, great actually. The round firebox was placed borderline too low on the chamber, almost like a reverse flow, but it's fine now, ish, lol

The one I had prior was built with the throat size and placement much better, I think it worked out at 105% or so of recommended so I only played with baffles. I designed and purpose-built my 24x48, after many long nights of studies, beer-drinking, smoking meats on other pits, trial and error, and more studies. So I've no plans to play with that throat, I need to get back to the cooking, and want my life back!


I think stack size is really important for a consistent, steady burning offset. Particularly on windy days, in adverse weather conditions, or to not be overly-sensitive requiring precise end-to-end leveling. It's important to have stack effect to create staying power.