Help me decide...

[CaliforniaSmoke]

Hey guys,

I've been reading through the posts here over the past week, and thinking about building a smoker.

I have an older 3 setting Traeger smoker. It does great on "smoke" and holds 190-225 degrees. I've done some great pork ribs and butt on it. I haven't had a lot of luck with brisket, and I don't like that I can't set it at a little higher temp ("medium" is 300-350, and at those temperatures I don't get enough smoke with pellets on a shorter cook like chicken).

I've thought about a lot of options, from upgrading the controller on the Traeger, to upgrading to a better pellet cooker, to building a smoker from scratch. I probably don't want a stick burner, I'm a low maintenance kind of guy.

So I thought about an UDS, and might still do that. But my current thinking is a gravity fed insulated cabinet smoker. I see three different plan sets for sale...but there isn't enough information for me to decide between them, and I don't want to buy the wrong size. It would be really helpful if there were more details like overall dimensions, space between the racks, how much meat each would hold, maybe a rough cost for steel. Do they all include a water pan? Maybe a drawing of all 3 side-by-side with a person in the drawing for scale? Or pictures of built units?

It looks like the 24 x 26 is the mid-sized unit, and I'm guessing that it's probably the size I want. But the smaller one might be more than enough capacity in reality. It's a tough call without more info.

This would be a fun project, I'd appreciate any thoughts on making a call between the three sizes.

[forty_creek]

You might jump on Puffs thread and ask your question. "Mini single pan gravity feed build" somtg like that.


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[Puff]

I have both sizes here now. The larger Gravity Feed is a very VERY nice smoker. Performance wise it just runs all day with a full load of coal. Temperatures are super stable. I built my own fan controller but have not installed it yet because the ball valve on the air inlet is just so darn precise. The GF unit has tremendous capacity, maybe 15% more than my 275 gallon reverse flow smoker. That RF smoker cooked over 30 slabs of ribs 13 months ago at a Fourth of July event. If by low maintenance you would mean that you are not anxious to monitor the fire and feed the fuel, then a gravity feed may be more to your liking. The gravity feed has five cooking racks in it slightly larger than 2 ft.². I believe I have about 7 inches between each rack. I have had the temperature of the gravity feed as high as 390° using only lump charcoal with a few small chunks of Oak.

The mini- gravity feed which I am currently building, is much more suited to my needs because of its size and portability ( keep in mind portability is relative). This smoker is about 32 inches high for the smoker itself. there are three cooking racks inside and they are only slightly smaller than the large gravity feed. my guess is performance will be equal as long as quality measurements and construction are the rule. keeping tolerances to their required standards makes the smoker more efficient, retains temperature, and keeps fuel usage to a minimum depending on cooking temps.

I am very pleased with the new size smaller unit as I am not cooking 10 to 20 or more pieces of meat, slabs of ribs, chickens or turkeys. Of course, if I do I always have the larger size. If you are familiar with the concept of the gravity feed operation by all means check out the fuel door and ball valve set up on my red gravity feed smoker you will see exactly what I am referring to with regard to air in let and temperature control.

Good luck in your decision

EDIT: I have to mention one thing... two years ago when I started my very first smoker from a set of plans I acquired right here on smokerbuilder.com, I was an expert at welding a rod to a piece of metal... in fact I was so good at that I had to bend the rod left and right 20 times to break it off... In other words, I knew nothing of the process. I have built five smokers in the last 23 months. every single one has performed flawlessly as I had gone through the learning process with the help of many of the members of this group. When you decide which plans you are using, you are never at a loss for help, suggestions or ideas.

[CaliforniaSmoke]

Puff, thanks so much for the information. I'm going to keep an eye on your mini build. My guess is that the mini is enough space for me, but I "want" more space in case I ever cook for a larger group. 90% of the time it's just my wife and son that I'm cooking for. We can do serious damage to a pork shoulder and a pot of smoked beans, but 30 slabs is going to be overkill

My Traeger has one 22 x 19 grill (418 sq inches)

The mini single pan has three 22 x 18 grills (1,188 sq in) with 5" of clearance between them. Enough for ribs or chicken pieces, but probably not pork butts on every shelf (I have a pork butt on the Traeger right now, I'll have to measure). If I used a water pan on the bottom shelf I'd still have more space than the traeger.
http://www.smokerplans.net/index.php?ma ... cts_id=177

The mid sized one has five shelves at 24 x 26 (3,000 sq in). The plan specs don't say what the shelf spacing is, but it looks to be the same as the mini. This is a lot more space than I need, but it might be nice to have the extra space. I'd probably use the bottom shelf for a water pan, and would still have too much room.
http://www.smokerplans.net/index.php?ma ... cts_id=128

The large one has five shelves at 28 * 25 (3,500 sq in), so it's just a bit larger than it's next smallest sibling. I guess it's also an advantage that it fits two pans per rack, that would be handy if you're cooking in big quantities. I can't tell about the shelf clearance as the preview drawing doesn't seem to be the same scale as the others.
http://www.smokerplans.net/index.php?ma ... cts_id=177

I expect I could stretch the mini to be a little taller if I think I need more shelf clearance. It would also use less steel. So, thinking out loud, I'm talking myself into the mini. I'm eager to see your build progress!

[CaliforniaSmoke]

EDIT: I have to mention one thing... two years ago when I started my very first smoker from a set of plans I acquired right here on smokerbuilder.com, I was an expert at welding a rod to a piece of metal... in fact I was so good at that I had to bend the rod left and right 20 times to break it off... In other words, I knew nothing of the process. I have built five smokers in the last 23 months. every single one has performed flawlessly as I had gone through the learning process with the help of many of the members of this group. When you decide which plans you are using, you are never at a loss for help, suggestions or ideas.

Thanks for that. I'm a reasonably good hobby fabricator. I've built hot rod and motorcycle chassis from scratch, built shop tools, etc. I know there are some things I'd need help figuring out how to do, but I'm not afraid of diving in.

[CaliforniaSmoke]

I just measured my butt. Um, the Pork shoulder I have on the smoker right now. It's been on for 15 hours at 225 and still measures about 5" tall. It's a large butt, about 11.5 pounds before it went on. I think just a little more space between the shelves might be a good idea, but the mini is still probably OK.

I just put this shoulder into a pan and covered it to finish cooking, laid in some honey and turbanado sugar. This should be good when it's done.

[NM_Wanderer]

Hello Everyone,

I have been lurking around here for a bit and have purchased a copy of the Double Pan and Mini GF plans. Frank let me just say these plans are awesome! Wish you would have been around some 15+ or so years ago when I built my first couple of smokers. Like CaliforniaSmoke I have some of the same thoughts. I wonder what modifications it would take to add a 4th shelf to the mini. Obviously stretch all the vertical dimensions by 5" but what would need to be done to the firebox and cook chamber opening as well as the chimney? The Mini as it is would probably be just fine but there are the times I cook several whole chickens (8-10) or several butts just not quite enough for me to justify the Double Pan GF. The problem being if the meat is taller than 5" then I would have to remove the rack above it cutting me down to effectively 1 rack that could handle meat taller than 5".

Again not trying to step on any toes here just wanting to get some opinions.

[Puff]

CaliforniaSmoke....did you say MOTORCYCLE?

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This is my unending passion. I've rebuilt and restored these and about 10 more. But my smoker building has exceeded what I have done with these vintage bikes....

Another thing you can do, is add rack slides every 2-3" ...that way you can slide in a shelf wherever you may need more or less height clearance.

AND.... Read a ton of posts here and you might discover that water pans are not used often in the forum here. Not dissuading your experiences AT ALL but I have learned so much from the guys here. When I told you about this 30 slabs... 75 of those People have come back to that party this year again...looking for what they said mostly " the best tasting ribs they've ever had".

All of the FIRST TIME COOK outcome was from the guys here. There are several that are catering smokers and offered spectacular advice. Can you imagine never having smoked anything and walking into a party for 75+ people and have 100% perfect outcome. A million to one shot.

[forty_creek]

Strong Work on the Butt!


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[forty_creek]

Puff that you?


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[CaliforniaSmoke]

Puff, nice rides! I can't believe you cooked for a mob like that the first time out. I gotta flip a coin on plans and pick up some steel.

I still have my ironhead and this back-burner studebaker custom (chopped, sectioned, caddy 500 engine).

[Puff]

Oh too cool.... I've always wanted to move to California ....

Forty--- yup, this is my other life... But like I had said, building smokers has really infected me! ( poor choice of word )

You should see me in a suit ! .....AGH....HAHAHA

[Rodcrafter]

Nice!!!


Making memories.

[forty_creek]

I hope I can meet Mr Puff one day! Like RC said he's an inspiration!


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[Puff]

I would LOVE to meet so many of the guys around here. When I was 28, I had gotten my amateur radio (ham) license. I talked to local guys on radio "gatherings" for a year. Then I went to a local radio club meeting and met many of the guys face to face after just hearing only voices. That was a great moment. Finally getting to associate a face to a name and call sign.

This would be no different. Except, I know who Frank is, DC' s red painted ankles and Rodcrafters flip flops ! what he calls his winter shoes....

[Frank_Cox]

Hahaha you guys are great!
As far as the plans go, the 24x26 was the first Gen, the double pan was the 2nd Gen, and the mini was the 3rd Gen. Each model has differences. The double pan we went to easier to fab doors instead of the recessed ones and made other changes. The mini has more changes making it an easier build.
You can stretch stuff all you want just keep it within 10 or 15 percent or so.
ALSO, don't forget the gathering in Florida this November!

[CaliforniaSmoke]

When I was 28, I had gotten my amateur radio (ham) license. I talked to local guys on radio "gatherings" for a year. Then I went to a local radio club meeting and met many of the guys face to face after just hearing only voices. That was a great moment. Finally getting to associate a face to a name and call sign.

Crazy, I know that *exact* feeling. I got my ham license in high school and started looking for houses near me that had ham radio antennas. I found two houses, met one guy on the air and just showed up on the other guy's doorstep. I picked up a Hallicrafters SX-99 like my first SW receiver last year just for nostalgia.

I think I'll buy the mini plans and think seriously about building it.

[Puff]

Think more than seriously ....you gotta build it... It would look so good with the Studebaker next to it. My dad had one... No clue which model .

My 72' crank up tower has a KT34XA on it and a two meter beam and isopole 2 meter vertical. Some of the guys I had originally met were from WWII as radio operators who gathered on Field Day and eventually created a club. Made it to advanced class quickly but never mastered 20 words a minute morse code. Built my own 2kW amp with those eimac 3-500z tubes. An old friend long gone placed a bunch of transmitting tubes under his cot when stationed in Alaska in the 1940's and just applied voltage to the plates to get the filament heat going ! Those old radio guys were quite creative.

I mentioned elsewhere that I believe this sized smoker is so well geared to family sized uses. Currently it's my wife and I...sure the kids visit but every day dinner is just her and I.

[CaliforniaSmoke]

So I bought the mini plans last night and have been pouring over them to see how it goes together. It would wave a fair amount of welding if the inner and outer skins could be bent on a brake instead of welding at the vertical corners.

I made up a materials list of all of the steel so I could guesstimate how much I need. Then I guesstimated the cost for the steel using prices from an online metal supplier. I have a good local supplier, but I wanted a ROUGH estimate. Two important things to note about this summary:

- the amounts are not really enough, there is no allowance for cuts, waste or mistakes. Figure maybe 15 to 20% more on average.
- the prices are for hot-rolled steel. Personally, I hate working with hot rolled. If you're TIG welding you have to grind or blast it before you weld it. If you're MIG welding it probably doesn't matter.

1.5" x 16 gauge steel tubing, ~68 linear feet
3/4" x 1/8" angle, ~23 lineal feet
1" x 1/8" angle, ~21 lineal feet
16 gauge HR sheet, ~66 square feet
1/2" plate, ~1 square foot
1/4" plate, ~6.5 square feet
plus some miscellaneous pipe, round and square bar.

(sanity check from folks actively building appreciated)

My *very rough* estimate for the cost of the steal is about $420. My guess when I buy it locally, allowing for waste and having some of the 1/2" plate cut to size is it will be $500-$550. Figure another $300+ for hardware, hinges, latches, gaskets, insulation, casters and paint. About half of buying a Stumps Baby. Your milage will vary, depending on too many factors to list.

[CaliforniaSmoke]

So I bought the mini plans last night and have been pouring over them to see how it goes together. It would wave a fair amount of welding if the inner and outer skins could be bent on a brake instead of welding at the vertical corners.

I made up a materials list of all of the steel so I could guesstimate how much I need. Then I guesstimated the cost for the steel using prices from an online metal supplier. I have a good local supplier, but I wanted a ROUGH estimate. Two important things to note about this summary:

- the amounts are not really enough, there is no allowance for cuts, waste or mistakes. Figure maybe 15 to 20% more on average.
- the prices are for hot-rolled steel. Personally, I hate working with hot rolled. If you're TIG welding you have to grind or blast it before you weld it. If you're MIG welding it probably doesn't matter.

1.5" x 16 gauge steel tubing, ~68 linear feet
3/4" x 1/8" angle, ~23 lineal feet
1" x 1/8" angle, ~21 lineal feet
16 gauge HR sheet, ~66 square feet
1/2" plate, ~1 square foot
1/4" plate, ~6.5 square feet
plus some miscellaneous pipe, round and square bar.

(sanity check from folks actively building appreciated)

My *very rough* estimate for the cost of the steal is about $420. My guess when I buy it locally, allowing for waste and having some of the 1/2" plate cut to size is it will be $500-$550. Figure another $300+ for hardware, hinges, latches, gaskets, insulation, casters and paint. About half of buying a Stumps Baby. Your milage will vary, depending on too many factors to list.

[Puff]

CaliforniaSmoke,

I was at my supplier and they had 9" x 60" X 1/2" bargain cuts. I bought the piece and STILL do not have a plasma cutter so I bought another 4.5" grinder with cutoff discs ( geez I hate that type of cutting).

While I don't have the page I front of me, i think your measurements are too close to mine for comfort. I did buy 7-10' lengths of 1 1/2" tube but my frame is cut and I have a 10 footer left. Those California prices must be higher than here. I have 250 where your 500 is. Of course, im better at guzintos than added stuff ... You know 5 guzinto 20 four times, 3 guzinto 6 two times...etc.

[CaliforniaSmoke]

I just called in my steel order. I already have enough 1/2" plate and other misc stuff on hand. I rounded up to allow for waste. I had everything cut down slightly so it will fit in my truck and be easier to handle in the shop. They are pricing it out now, and will call me back to confirm I can pick it up tomorrow. Hopefully I'll have some 16 gauge sheet left over because I need to make a new floorpan for the studebaker, I cut the original one out so I could lower the seat.

1.5" x 1.5" x .065" wall square steel tube, 80' cut in 10' lengths for handling
.75" x .75" x .125" HR Angle, 30' cut to 10' lengths
1" x 1" x .125" HR Angle, 30' cut to 10' lengths
16 gauge cold rolled sheet steel, three 4' x 8' sheets cut in half lengthwise (~ 4' x 4')
.75" x 9 gauge expanded steel, half sheet (4' x 4')
1/4" steel plate, qty 1 @ 19.75" x 48"
1/4" steel plate, qty 1 @ 10" x 48"
.5" x .5" CR steel bar, qty 1 @ 48" long
.5" CR round steel bar, qty 1 @ 48" long
3.5" OD x .25" wall (or 3" schedule 40 pipe), qty 1 @ 8"
9" channel x 24"

[CaliforniaSmoke]

$981 is the quote for that list of materials. Wow.

[Puff]

That's no small pile of cash and I can't say with any authority....BUT... THATS SEEMS VERY HIGH !

My first visit to the store which was everything but channel, expanded metal and 4x8 sheets of 16gauge was $170.00 I also have plenty of 1/4" plate pieces so that's not in that list

Some differences:
70 feet 1 1/4
24' 3/4 angle
24' 1" angle
6' 1/2" Rod
1/2" x9" x 60" plate
Red polka dot welding hat
2- 14" cut off discs

[Frank_Cox]

Wow! That is a fairly high price. Around here 16 gauge 5 by 10 sheets are 74 to 78 dollars each. You may want to do some more shopping. As far as the exterior skin goes keep in mind most everybody screws the exterior skin on almost nobody welds it. The more bending you can do the better